cutter123

SpottedTApps; a video for you

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Dunno how much of a point that was. More or less just a thought. Certainly something to consider, for sure. I always worry about the critters I work with and the heat, but I have to work them outside.

The only real point I have is on the very tip-top of the funny hat I used to have to wear when they would stick me in the corner of the classroom. I think it was about horses, because it had the letters D-U-N on it. I forget what the rest of the letters were that were there.

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Okay gang,

First of all, anyone following this has at least enough interest to care. Now, we haven't heard back from Cutter but I'm going to jump back in anyway because this is a public forum, and well, I feel like it. This is what we do. Who the heck else would hang out in a forum about horse training? If Cutter didn't get involved where would this horse be? Think about that. He got this way because of the way he was handled. We, collectively, take horsemanship a bit for granted. We live, eat, breath this stuff.

So, RT's point about what is Jessie going to talk to the owner about is extremely valid. Any of us. I mean it, if you are here you care and you are in a special class. Welcome. What are they going to do when you give this horse back?

I have said often to people who ask my advise. " I can "fix" your horse. But I'm not sure I can fix you. " That's really the problem and let's face this, if this horse had a human that could speak and communicate in a way the horse understood, they wouldn't have hired Cutter. (Not snaking you Jessie I swear!)

So, let's stay productive and supportive. Jessie was hired to take a horse that has suffered in the hands of inconsistent leadership and turn him around. We all know **** well that if the owners don't get in on this "retraining" then she is frankly WASTING her time. At least hopefully the check will clear and she will be compensated but come on, this isn't just about what "WE?" can do with a horse. It's about what we can do for "THIS" horse. Jessie is just the trainer and it's her call. Any sniping at this point is a waste of your effort. I don't see a "bad" horse. I just see a horse that has suffered from inconsistent human handling.

So, now, what should he expect from us?

William (historyrider)

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So, RT's point about what is Jessie going to talk to the owner about is extremely valid. Any of us. I mean it, if you are here you care and you are in a special class. Welcome. What are they going to do when you give this horse back?

That was Lopen's point, actually. Although it's hard to tell because the post is doing weird things. Hmmm.

I have said often to people who ask my advise. " I can "fix" your horse. But I'm not sure I can fix you. " That's really the problem and let's face this, if this horse had a human that could speak and communicate in a way the horse understood, they wouldn't have hired Cutter. (Not snaking you Jessie I swear!)

Actually, the only person who can guaranteed fix a horse is your vet. And sometimes, even that's in doubt. :D

So, let's stay productive and supportive. Jessie was hired to take a horse that has suffered in the hands of inconsistent leadership and turn him around. We all know **** well that if the owners don't get in on this "retraining" then she is frankly WASTING her time. At least hopefully the check will clear and she will be compensated but come on, this isn't just about what "WE?" can do with a horse. It's about what we can do for "THIS" horse. Jessie is just the trainer and it's her call. Any sniping at this point is a waste of your effort. I don't see a "bad" horse. I just see a horse that has suffered from inconsistent human handling.

So, now, what should he expect from us?

I didn't think I was being unsupportive or sniping, just prompting a question/different option, and the considerations that might (MIGHT ya'll, not will, does, definitely is be-all and end-all, but MIGHT) make the lower-stress approach a little better choice.

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Oops. Sorry Liz. That was your point. What is the owner going to do when Jessie "fixes" this horse?

Ahh Roland. Your a horse trainer after my own heart. Horse first, the heck with the clock. You and I live in that perfect world where time and the almighty dollar don't ever have to cross paths. Do you get that feeling that eats at you that you were born in the wrong century sometimes?

William (historyrider)

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As with most creatures, humans lincluded, horses earn best if the experience is memorable. If the horse is a blank slate, and has learned no bad habits, often you just set them up to find the right answer. Once they find that answer, you have only to let them know that its right. Being herd creatures, they want to continue to be right.

Sometimes a horse will learn undesirable habits either by nature (some inherent flaw in their character) or by nurture (something they were taught by a human, intentionally or not). This is when any training to eradicate the undesirable behavior needs to become memorable. Causing a horse to exert himself to the point where sweat drips from their body creates a situation in the horse's mind where they really want to find the combination to cause you to quit. Depending on the horse, they may throw all kinds of evasions and distractions at you. As the rider, you need to focus on the slightest give or try by the horse to meet the behavior expectation that you are looking for. Often times, if a horse has been successful at avoiding work, they will go to great lengths to get out of work, sometimes working much harder to avoid work than it would be to just do what is asked. I have seen horses that have needed to sweat hard enough to have sweat raining off from their bellies. It was not intentional to work them that hard, but the human HAD to win. Letting the horse win would only further cement the undesirable behavior.

It is anyone's right to agree or disagree with the training methods posted. I disagree with people who have no feel, timing or CLUE training a horse, and yet it happens EVERY day. Generally, the proof is in the pudding, so to speak. Rank, uncaring riders that have never even passed finnesse in the street will not put out a horse that is soft or supple. When I see a horse make a HUGE change from bracy and on the muscle to trying and softening in less than 2 days, I feel like I am relatively safe in saying that the methods used are at least worth spending some time examining. Perhaps I am not the horseman to use them, but I will evaluate based on results.

In answer to laying a horse down that exhibits the behaviors that this horse exhibited, I actually prefer working with the horse riding its back, even if it sweats and moves quite a bit. This horse has made quite a bit of progress in what Cutter has done so far. I prefer not to lay a horse down (I have seen it on occassion and been involved in the laying down of one horse) I don't like to build a relationship on death. I prefer them to learn in going forward and have successes in setting expectations and being clear in discipline.

Horses aren't the only place I learned about leadership and what it truly means. One of the lessons I learned was that dedication and focus, clarity and direction, and justified rewards and consistent corrections do MORE than cuddles and hugs, or petting and carrots will ever do.

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I was born in the right century, William. Just not born in the right family. You know, the ridiculously rich one.

BF ... my main concern in bringing up the point of laying the horse down is not so much involving it in death, as not involving it in potential unnecessary physical distress. Laying a horse down, done correctly, is far less physically distressing than allowing a horse to buck, riding it down, or longeing it until it gives up. And that's actually proven scientific fact.

And what it does for the horse neurologically and mentally also helps the animal out. But again, that's only if done correctly, and with the idea that the horse is to be handled carefully, safely and in a dignified manner once it's down.

And if you think progress is impressive in two days, you oughtta see how impressive it is in two hours. :D

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Well, to be fair, I'd hazard a guess that actual time in on this horse in between videos was closer to 2 hours than 2 days, he just had time to rest and eat in those 2 days. I am more inclined to have faith in changes that exhibit themselves longer after the fact.

In 2 hours, that horse has become mentally tired, which can substitute for a training change. <shrug> To each there own. While I enjoy using more body language to get my point across and in general dislike gimmicks, I don't necessarly sit on the same bench as those who tout "natural horsemanship". I find the "getting a horse broke in a round pen in 3 hours or less" mentality to be a symptom of the microwaves and McDonalds world we are living in. I don't know that I call it wrong per se, but it's not my preference. Some horses really excell in that sort of accelerated learning environment, and other's don't.

Horses tend to be more "now" than humans. We are distracted at all times what the repercussions of what we do *might* be and what happened the last time we tried any given thing. Horses have excellent memories, its true, but for the main part, they are concerned about now.

For those that have a problem with what was shown in the first video, I'd personally enjoy seeing a video of what you would do instead. Simulating the issues shown should be fine!

RT, as far as laying a horse down, the key part is getting it done "right". I'm sure it happens more often incorrectly than correctly. It seems WAY harder to mess up some physical exercise and repitition to accomplish the same end result. Sure, it may take a bit longer, and may stress the horse out. Quite frankly, anything that comes with the caveat "only do in a safe area or on soft ground" seems more dangerous than some quality sweating time. I am also sure that getting a horse to sweat is FAR less dangerous to me than laying a horse down.

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For those that have a problem with what was shown in the first video, I'd personally enjoy seeing a video of what you would do instead. Simulating the issues shown should be fine!

RT, as far as laying a horse down, the key part is getting it done "right". I'm sure it happens more often incorrectly than correctly. It seems WAY harder to mess up some physical exercise and repitition to accomplish the same end result. Sure, it may take a bit longer, and may stress the horse out. Quite frankly, anything that comes with the caveat "only do in a safe area or on soft ground" seems more dangerous than some quality sweating time. I am also sure that getting a horse to sweat is FAR less dangerous to me than laying a horse down.

Well, as for the sweat, I would venture that depends on whether or not you can outride that horse. In Jessie's case, the velcro was attached well that day. Other days it might not be. It all depends on how hard the horse bucks, how high it rears, how many directions it decides to go at once. We can't outride them all. Heck, in my case I can't outride any of them. Except for the one at WalMart. I almost got that one licked. Threw me the other day right before my quarter was up!

As for the stress, just curious, but what training ISN'T supposed to take place in a safe area on soft ground? I don't see too many people carpeting their arenas with pea gravel these days. And no one said quality sweating time wasn't a good idea. I merely pointed out that in excessively hot and humid conditions, a horse undergoing this level of exertion could be susceptible to heat-related injuries, and that other ideas could be just as good as riding down the horse.

As for your request for videos, here are a few of my favorites.

Colt Starting Part 1

Colt Starting Part 2

Colt Starting Part 3

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Well I'm sure glad I provided some discussion for everyone who likes to talk about methods and philosophy and such. I was out riding all day, like I do every day.

RT, while I respect Paul and understand there are different ways to get things done, laying down isn't something that is usually in the repoirtore here. The ones who end up on the ground (3 in the six years I've been here) is because they want to fall over and so are then laid down. This horse was very far from being that bad, in my opinion. What I've learned about him is that he is overreactive to pressure. The first ride I had on him was light and easy because I was just feeling him out. Second one, feeling out some more, adding some pressure here/etc, third one, well I sure hit a button that led directly to one of his gaping holes!

I don't know about all the sceintific things/heart rate, etc, but I do know this: a hand with some feel will know how to get a horse tired without getting him TOO tired, or stressed without getting him TOO stressed. That's what I like about my trainer. He can get the point across, get a high level of performance from a horse, without going over the edge and hurting or burning a horse out. If a horse chooses to fight, he can finish the fight and come out the other side, with the horse better for it and no worse for wear. That's why he keeps his customers for decades, and why this barn is full of sound, sane, happy horses.

I often think about that quote from the Clint Eastwood movie, Million Dollar Baby. His protogee, the girl boxer, has some bad habits. He says to get them out, he has to get her tired down to her bones, pound out the bad habits and open a space for good ones. (or something to that extent). A little sweat hasn't hurt me, I know that. It's made me fit into my jeans a little better ;) Often this is the same tactic used in the military.

Well I know some things... I know I'm not an @$$hole (Liz you might want to rethink that one comment; it sure makes it sound like that is what you are calling me. If you want to go there, just be prepared for me to go there too) and I know I haven't hurt any horses, but I've made a lot of them better.

Stars, you are right, he wasn't good at a trot either; he was stiff and bracy and fresh and overreactive the minute I got on him. You can sure see that in the video. Sure groundwork is good. I've drove this horse, bitted this horse up, and lunged this horse plenty and will continue to also employ those techniques. But as I see it there are times when one must get on and ride and plenty can be taught from the back. This horse is overreactive to a rider. Groundwork has been employed to soften his body, but that doesn't help him become less overreactive to a rider. Only a rider can do that. :)

I respect lots that John Lyons can do, but I must disagree with the statement that "if it looks like it's something the average person cannot do, It isn't right." I just can't see that being true. An average rider will not get the same response from a horse that an expert rider can. An average person with average savvy and average timing will not be able to read a situation, and then do what needs to be done at the exact moment it needs to be done, like an expert will. (I'm not saying I"m an expert. I have worked for a World Champion for six years now and still have tons and tons to learn, but he has put a great deal of effort into making my eye, my feel, my timing, and my skills good enough to be more effective on a horse than an average person)

Possibly this blowup could have been avoided if I had been slower with this horse. But these sort of blowups are the reason his owner is hurt. So I am of a mind that it was a good thing that the issue was pushed so it could start to become resolved. With the luxury of more time, perhaps skirting the issue and building a new foundation could work. I have to wonder if that is what happened with the harness racer you mentioned. Who knows how he is months later. If the buttons were not pushed and erased, perhaps they are still there, and will come up someday? Who knows.

As far as setting the horse up to fail, perhaps that is a necessary part of the process. Set them up to fail, and then use the failure to show them how to succeed. This horse now knows how to succeed...he is really enjoying the mechanical cow. Now, because he has learned it is okay to let me lead his nose and move his ribs over with my leg and ride him forward and ask him to stop, he can enjoy this job, whereas before, all he could do was worry about the rider and what he could do to evade.

You are also right that my time will probably be wasted and that it really will take more than 30 days to get this horse to the point where new, better habits will be instilled deeply enough for a rider like his usual rider. However, much like Holden Caulfeld, I cannot save the entire world. Hopefully I can give this horse a little taste of lightness and help his usual rider think more about being soft and supple. She can't ride right now. She has a broken collarbone. I will help her all I can, however, to understand some things about communication with a green horse.

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It's not the handler's feel I worry about in conditions like this Jessie. It's those unknowns that you cannot feel. An irregular heartrate, a genetic defect in the cardio-pulmonary make up of a horse. Those are things that, to a lot of trainers, don't show up until it's far too late. And it happens quite often. In big barns, and little barns all over the world. I just hope you never have something like that happen to you.

As for the fight, I prefer to find a way to work with the horse where the fight option doesn't even come up. I've always considered, in myself alone, that if I got into a fight with a horse, I totally screwed up. If I couldn't find a way to properly and positively motivate a horse without it turning into a sweaty, snorty battle, then I just didn't try hard enough, and I really failed the horse.

Others feel differently about that. But I don't apply the same expectations to anyone else, just to myself. What works for them, works for them, what works for me, works for me. Simple as that. It's not a matter of "skirting the issue" to me. It's a matter of bypassing that negative resistant response and rebuilding the horse's confidence, feel and willingness so it doesn't come up. Treating what I see as the disease, and not just treating the symptom.

I guess my aversion to setting a horse up to fail is more personal than anything. I get set up like that a great deal. More often than not, through sheer perseverence, I get through it and deal with it and come out on top. But it's a wearing process, both on my sense of physical well-being and mental well-being as on my confidence. And if I don't like having that happen to me, why would I expect a horse to feel any differently? At least, that's my reasonsing.

But like I said, I don't expect anyone else to feel the same way I do. I can't change, nor would I want to, the standards to which others hold themselves. That's their responsibility, and if what they are doing works for them and the horse, then good deal. It's just not the direction I might pick.

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That first video had me wondering if you were gonna stick to the saddle or not? LOL

I didn't see extreme yanking either? I saw bumping by a steady hand. Turning horses in a circle is the most basic principle all the clinicians use. I'd not trade places with cutter on this horse. I trust her instinct and talent to know how to deal with a disrespectful horse when needed. She has ridden way more horses than most of us armchair quarterbacks.

I know I have used circles for disciplining in a do or die situation on a green horse in an open environment. Sometimes you have to do what you have to do especially on a disrespectful horse. Respect is key.

Richard Winters made this comment on his show on Sunday - If someone tells me they've only been riding at a walk for a month or so, I don't want to get on that horse because I know all their buttons haven't been pushed yet. When we ride we are constantly pushing new buttons and we have to be prepared to react in the moment. Woulda, shoulda, coulda is nice when you are sitting on the sidelines.

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Well I know some things... I know I'm not an @$$hole (Liz you might want to rethink that one comment; it sure makes it sound like that is what you are calling me. If you want to go there, just be prepared for me to go there too) and I know I haven't hurt any horses, but I've made a lot of them better.

OH GOOD GAWD I don't need to "rethink" that comment cause I wasn't calling YOU that! I was using an example to show that RT's "thought" wasn't SO far off. It COULD happen. But I don't think RT NOR I were refering to THIS horse that YOU are riding. Just a general statement to put out there maybe for inexperienced people reading this that heat exhaustion, heat stroke, heart attacks....they CAN happen. Trust me, this guy WAY over did it with this horse that died....WAY beyond what you did with the horse you riding...WAY. I was calling the guy who killed the horse that. Any guy who ropes a BULL and has the horse pull it all the way across the arena in 95 degree weather THROUGH boggy sticky mud with no breeze on a horse that has been ridden in the same muddy hot arena ALL night...and gives the poor thing a heart attack is WORTHY of being called that, if not something worse, right? If I wanted to call YOU that, I woulda put your name in it. [ROTFL] You really shouldn't read so deeply into what people write!

But if you want to "go there", be my guest.

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This horse is in NO WAY near being to the point that he needs to be laid down! My god, see someone do something and think that's the only way.

OK, just because I occaisionally like to play the snide bia, thanks to all the new profile stuff, I've been to some websites today. I'll tell you right now, I make judgements. Yes, I do. And given what I see about these people's horses, their riding skills (or lack thereof), show history, ill fitting tack, poorly put together horses and lack of literary skills.... I'm taking Cutter.

Sorry, but I've seen her ride. I've ridden her horses. She's ridden mine. Those are HAPPY, HEALTHY, WELL ADJUSTED horses. They love to work. They love their lives. They are well muscled, glossy, bright eyed, happy to see you, no saddle marks (I know several of you can't say that, I've seen the pictures of your tack on your horses). Her horses live a good life. They do NOT spend their lives with someone hanging on the reins for control, because they learned control early on. Once they leave her barn, I can't vouch for how healthy they are kept, but at her barn, they all fill out, shed out, slick up and put on muscle. Again, I've seen the pictures of the poorly kept horses of some of the critics here. Lovely.

I take an odd sense of joy sitting back and watching people bicker over things like this, because I know Jessie can handle it. She has no need to defend herself against anyone, but when I see WHO it is that is nit picking at her, it makes it even funnier. I would be happy to pit Jessie against any of you any day, given the same horse for 30 days. Let's see who's barn the horse comes out of happier in the end.

Thank you, Mizz b!+@# going back to silently watching.

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Sheesh, spots ... it was just a suggestion. Nothing more. And simply made as a consideration for the heat and the amount of exertion the horse went through. It's not the be-all and end-all, it is simply a tool that could --- COULD --- fit the occasion. Something I've said. Repeatedly. And again, repeat here.

By the way, it's not exactly a good idea to start bad-mouthing how people's horses look to you. Glass houses, ya know.

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This has been great reading and watching for 2 days! First of all, thanks to Cutter for posting all the videos, I enjoyed the opportunity to watch someone work through a tough horse and a difficult ride, which is something I don't get to see often. I saw appropriate actions for a 30 minute ride that seems to have had very good results based on the second set of videos. This has been a great thread.

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This horse is in NO WAY near being to the point that he needs to be laid down! My god, see someone do something and think that's the only way.

OK, just because I occaisionally like to play the snide bia, thanks to all the new profile stuff, I've been to some websites today. I'll tell you right now, I make judgements. Yes, I do. And given what I see about these people's horses, their riding skills (or lack thereof), show history, ill fitting tack, poorly put together horses and lack of literary skills.... I'm taking Cutter.

Sorry, but I've seen her ride. I've ridden her horses. She's ridden mine. Those are HAPPY, HEALTHY, WELL ADJUSTED horses. They love to work. They love their lives. They are well muscled, glossy, bright eyed, happy to see you, no saddle marks (I know several of you can't say that, I've seen the pictures of your tack on your horses). Her horses live a good life. They do NOT spend their lives with someone hanging on the reins for control, because they learned control early on. Once they leave her barn, I can't vouch for how healthy they are kept, but at her barn, they all fill out, shed out, slick up and put on muscle. Again, I've seen the pictures of the poorly kept horses of some of the critics here. Lovely.

I take an odd sense of joy sitting back and watching people bicker over things like this, because I know Jessie can handle it. She has no need to defend herself against anyone, but when I see WHO it is that is nit picking at her, it makes it even funnier. I would be happy to pit Jessie against any of you any day, given the same horse for 30 days. Let's see who's barn the horse comes out of happier in the end.

Thank you, Mizz b!+@# going back to silently watching.

Wow, now there's a mouthful of sh!t slingin' [ROTFL]

I'm gonna go buy lawn chairs and snacks to sell ring side [ROTFL]

I know the economy is bad so I'll sell bottled water for 50 cents, popcorn for 25 cents, candy bars for $1 and sling shots for $2.50 (hey, a girls gotta make a livin')

Oh and if you're gonna call somebody a b!+@# have the balls to type it out properly.. like this, "b!tch"

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LMAO Um Wrangler, no thanks!!! He's all yours honey. You look like your sticking him pretty good in that pic...stay safe! I do like that indoor arena though. Looks like a nice place.

RT, I understand what you are saying about failing vs. succeeding and how you feel about your personal experiences like that. The difference I see in this situation and others is there are two types of failing...

There is someone who is a bully, who is setting someone (or some horse) up to fail repeatedly, through ignorance or just plain meanness.

Then there is someone with some savvy, a teacher, who can utilize failure to lead the way to success. That is a difference that is pretty important.

What happened in your life was a bully. A drill instructor, on the other hand, is a tough love teacher who breaks one down in order to BUILD THEM UP. I see this as different.

What has happened in the PAST with this horse is he, like many other horses I've seen, HAS been set up to fail and never shown how to succeed. He already had that as his default setting. I had to push him through that so he could find the light at the end of the tunnel and be in the right mental state to take the lightness offered to him. Make sense?

As for heart conditions, heat, etc, first off it wasn't that hot that day. Notice I am wearing a long sleeved shirt?

And I have seen my trainer through feel know there is something wrong with a horse, neurologically. He has known a horse had entroliths before any were diagnosed, because he "felt that horse was not 100%". He knew when a horse had a pinhole in his intestines, because he just knew "something was not right with that horse." Like I said before, a good hand can sense how much is enough and how much is too much. Well I'm not quite as savvy as my trainer yet, but I"m learning, and thankfully I have his supervision in the meantime so I can learn properly how to feel all those things and make sure my ponies stay healthy and sound. :)

HCIT, I am RIGHT WITH richard winters on that one! There is nothing worse than a horse like that. I've run into them before and they are usually the ones who will hurt you when you start asking for more than they think they want to give. Yes it is very easy to armchair quarterback from the internet. Its easy to say "if this horse were brought to me," forgetting the bracy horse full of holes in their own yard.

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I'll take one of those shots necey, but I'm bringing my own lawn chair. The only person I called a B!+@# was myself, and I can type it any way I want when I'm calling myself one. You can type it any way you want when you call me one, I won't throw the dictionary at you.

Oooohhh! I love glass houses, that's why I keep a blog. [Jump]

edit because...duh! I saw shots instead of sling shots. Well, I want the shot anyway... are you going to be selling those?

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This subject, although not a fight, certainly "feels" tense. Does anybody need to cool off before typing up another post? [Crazy]

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This just proves you don't have to keep your horse at a Boarding facility to catch all the latest drama. You can sit back and watch from your own computer. I am no trainer so have no comment on correct ways to train a horse, and mine have been sent to a trainer who many would probably not use I don't know. However I am with spotty, because she has always pointed me in the right direction so far.

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Cutter,

I do like to see the progress you have made with him. You have a real talent with horses and it shows when you get ones such as him that are such a challenge and have man made problems.

[smiley Wavey]

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LMAO-Cutter the paint did that to me the day before so that's the husband on him in that pic.

Here is me riding him the day before BEFORE my blowup.

gallery_68_65_308441.jpg

Today we had a wild ride out in the hay pasture chasing loose bulls. He's still saddled and I am heading back out to ride him again in a second.

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I'll take one of those shots necey, but I'm bringing my own lawn chair. The only person I called a B!+@# was myself, and I can type it any way I want when I'm calling myself one. You can type it any way you want when you call me one, I won't throw the dictionary at you.

Oooohhh! I love glass houses, that's why I keep a blog. [Jump]

edit because...duh! I saw shots instead of sling shots. Well, I want the shot anyway... are you going to be selling those?

I wasn't calling you a b!tch, just like Lopey wasn't calling Cutter an azzhole.

If I was name calling I certainly would've come up with wording that has more flare.. other than b!tch.

Perhaps sumthin' like a walkin' talkin' rectum.. ya, that sounds pretty **** funny to me in the name calling department

Oh and I love Webster, I always like using my longest finger to flip thru the pages [Crazy]

Whether calling yourself names or sumbody else, I still say just come right out and say it instead of using *&%$#

Those Bugs Bunny type symbols bug the crap outta me.. if profane language is the choice of words/word then be Yosamity about it and just say it gosh darn it dangnabbit [ROTFL]

As for your blog thing... you're not the fugly person are you?

Only thing I know about fugly is that it's suppose to be a horseperson's blog.. right?

I don't read blogs... i have a pretty entertaining life and don't need to read about what somebody else is doing day after day.

That is what a blog is about right?

It's kind of like a diary/journal or sumthing [Question]

What happens.. do people respond to your blog?

Oh Lord.. this isn't like that creepy myspace is it?

Ya know.. Freddie Krueger and his nightmare bus are on myspace.

I hear tell he has a whole bus load of victims and is currently on a rampage for more.

Jeepers Creepers rides shot gun [shocked]

Speaking of shots... sorry, i don't do drinkable "shots"

But I'd be glad to give you the slingshot you asked for and I'll even throw in a bottle of this to keep the glass house you love finger print and fly poop free....

269px-Windex_Original.jpg

Yes, those little black spots on our windows and mirrors really is fly poop.

How do I know you wonder.... well, I saw a fly "do work" on my window.

IT'S TRUE!

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I believe Necey when she says she saw the fly do it.

And Wrangler, if you go outside some day and discover that your indoor has mysteriously disappeared and parked itself in Illinois, all I can say is ... "wuddn't me dat dun it!"

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WOOHOO! I say party at Wranglers! We can go for the rodeo and BYOB in da C and don't forget the LC's and some M for the BB!

(BYOB=bring your own brewskies

C=Cooler

LC'S=lawn chairs

M=music

BB=Boom Box !) [ROTFL]

Necey, you can bring a mechanical bull and charge $5 for rides!....no wait, I gotta pay all that fuel cost to get there so you better make it $3! [Jump] Oh, and bring RT's walmart pony so he can practice.... [Crazy]

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