Sign in to follow this  
surfin_bc88

Rattlesnake bite on muzzle (Pg 14 new update)

Recommended Posts

As long as the proper sized tube and enough finesse are used, it shouldn't be that traumatic. The question is if he's that swollen, what happens when you CAN'T get the tube in?

The "cleanliness" argument doesn't fly with me personally. The nasogastric tube in particular is hardly a sterile situation. Ever seen a horse eat dirt? Eat manure? As far as the IV goes, yeah that's a more relative argument. But that's what bandages are for. The thing to remember here is this horse CAN'T EAT OR DRINK due to the swelling that's occurred. In the grand scheme of things, is infection REALLY the most important issue? Boluses (single administrations) of fluids sound like a great thing, but one Liter of fluids to a horse is like spitting in the ocean. Better than nothing, but hardly beneficial.

The Vitamin C is an interesting suggestion; it does have anti-oxidant properties which would certainly be beneficial in this case. But the comment about it being "non-toxic" is not correct. Its been demonstrated that in large doses, Vitamin C can in fact be damaging to the kidneys if I remember correctly. Heck, put in that nasogastric tube, run a 1/2 gallon of OJ through. The sugars will probably help.....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

quote:

Originally posted by cvm2002:

DEX DOES NOT CAUSE LAMINITIS!!! Enough of the misconceptions.....if the horse dies because of the swelling in its neck and it can't breathe, the risk of laminitis is moot. So enough of that....


Sorry...seriously, my vet told me it increased the risk of laminitis and he's not the first vet to tell me that. I did prelude it with the fact that it was probably the least of her problems right now...I didn't mean to pass along misinformation...and I surely didn't mean to suggest that she neglect to respond to the seriousness of the problems at hand...next time I'll keep my mouth shut. Sorry.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As long as the proper sized tube and enough finesse are used, it shouldn't be that traumatic. The question is if he's that swollen, what happens when you CAN'T get the tube in?

The "cleanliness" argument doesn't fly with me personally. The nasogastric tube in particular is hardly a sterile situation. Ever seen a horse eat dirt? Eat manure? As far as the IV goes, yeah that's a more relative argument. But that's what bandages are for. The thing to remember here is this horse CAN'T EAT OR DRINK due to the swelling that's occurred. In the grand scheme of things, is infection REALLY the most important issue? Boluses (single administrations) of fluids sound like a great thing, but one Liter of fluids to a horse is like spitting in the ocean. Better than nothing, but hardly beneficial.

The Vitamin C is an interesting suggestion; it does have anti-oxidant properties which would certainly be beneficial in this case. But the comment about it being "non-toxic" is not correct. Its been demonstrated that in large doses, Vitamin C can in fact be damaging to the kidneys if I remember correctly. Heck, put in that nasogastric tube, run a 1/2 gallon of OJ through. The sugars will probably help.....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

quote:

Originally posted by cvm2002:

DEX DOES NOT CAUSE LAMINITIS!!! Enough of the misconceptions.....if the horse dies because of the swelling in its neck and it can't breathe, the risk of laminitis is moot. So enough of that....


Sorry...seriously, my vet told me it increased the risk of laminitis and he's not the first vet to tell me that. I did prelude it with the fact that it was probably the least of her problems right now...I didn't mean to pass along misinformation...and I surely didn't mean to suggest that she neglect to respond to the seriousness of the problems at hand...next time I'll keep my mouth shut. Sorry.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi everyone, thank you so very much for the wonderful response, it's so appreciated! Here's an update...

Watched him all night, and by this morning the swelling has gathered into these wierd 'pocket' looking things that sort of hang from his chest. They almost reach between his forelegs. It's also all up in and around his forehead and a little behind his ears. His eyes are now just little slits that he can hardly blink, so I've been putting the ointment in them. He looks a little more drawn, and definitely depressed. He just stands at his water bucket with his mouth in the water, I think it feels good to him. I also have to change the water in the bucket 5-6 times a day because he fills it with so much blood/dirt/etc.. I wish he could drink something, but the water level is never any lower. He also has not passed any manure yet. I hose him every so often to make sure he stays cool, and we're going to set up a box fan out there with an extension cord since there isn't any power yet. As I had said before, we just moved up to this area a few months ago, so the barn isn't even finished yet, which is why it's just dirt in the stall he's in. We have rubber mats and I normally have those with shavings in my stalls, but we've been so busy working on the actual barn itself that we haven't had time to put those down(they're heavy, old dairy farm rubber belts a friend gave me, about 350 lbs. each, takes forever to move them). The vet can't make it out here until about 5:00 this evening, so it's going to be another long day watching him. I have called around 15 clinics and veterinarians in this county, and a few countys surrounding. They all want me to bring him in to their clinic, and say they can't send anyone out, too busy, on leave, sick, etc.. They don't realize, as much as I tell them, he would never make the trailer ride down. Alot of my neighbors and friends in this area use the vet that has been coming out for me, and they all love him and have nothing but excellent recommendations. I'm going to call him this morning and see what he says again about the IV and tube. Besides that, there isn't much else I can do except wait. Which seems to be the hardest thing right now.

Kate

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi everyone, thank you so very much for the wonderful response, it's so appreciated! Here's an update...

Watched him all night, and by this morning the swelling has gathered into these wierd 'pocket' looking things that sort of hang from his chest. They almost reach between his forelegs. It's also all up in and around his forehead and a little behind his ears. His eyes are now just little slits that he can hardly blink, so I've been putting the ointment in them. He looks a little more drawn, and definitely depressed. He just stands at his water bucket with his mouth in the water, I think it feels good to him. I also have to change the water in the bucket 5-6 times a day because he fills it with so much blood/dirt/etc.. I wish he could drink something, but the water level is never any lower. He also has not passed any manure yet. I hose him every so often to make sure he stays cool, and we're going to set up a box fan out there with an extension cord since there isn't any power yet. As I had said before, we just moved up to this area a few months ago, so the barn isn't even finished yet, which is why it's just dirt in the stall he's in. We have rubber mats and I normally have those with shavings in my stalls, but we've been so busy working on the actual barn itself that we haven't had time to put those down(they're heavy, old dairy farm rubber belts a friend gave me, about 350 lbs. each, takes forever to move them). The vet can't make it out here until about 5:00 this evening, so it's going to be another long day watching him. I have called around 15 clinics and veterinarians in this county, and a few countys surrounding. They all want me to bring him in to their clinic, and say they can't send anyone out, too busy, on leave, sick, etc.. They don't realize, as much as I tell them, he would never make the trailer ride down. Alot of my neighbors and friends in this area use the vet that has been coming out for me, and they all love him and have nothing but excellent recommendations. I'm going to call him this morning and see what he says again about the IV and tube. Besides that, there isn't much else I can do except wait. Which seems to be the hardest thing right now.

Kate

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

oh what a mess he is. I know you must be wrought with frustration and anger right now. My prayers and thoughts are with you and your horse. [Huggy][Angel][Angel][Angel][Angel][Angel][Angel]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

oh what a mess he is. I know you must be wrought with frustration and anger right now. My prayers and thoughts are with you and your horse. [Huggy][Angel][Angel][Angel][Angel][Angel][Angel]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Prayers to you and your horse. I lost a wonderful dog to a copperhead bite when we lived in Missouri. She was doing her job protecting my kids. Terrible incident. I hope your horse makes it through this terrible ordeal. I am now in South Ga. and snakes do concern me here too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Prayers to you and your horse. I lost a wonderful dog to a copperhead bite when we lived in Missouri. She was doing her job protecting my kids. Terrible incident. I hope your horse makes it through this terrible ordeal. I am now in South Ga. and snakes do concern me here too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

quote:

Originally posted by cvm2002:

As long as the proper sized tube and enough finesse are used, it shouldn't be that traumatic. The question is if he's that swollen, what happens when you CAN'T get the tube in?

The "cleanliness" argument doesn't fly with me personally. The nasogastric tube in particular is hardly a sterile situation. Ever seen a horse eat dirt? Eat manure? As far as the IV goes, yeah that's a more relative argument. But that's what bandages are for. The thing to remember here is this horse CAN'T EAT OR DRINK due to the swelling that's occurred. In the grand scheme of things, is infection REALLY the most important issue? Boluses (single administrations) of fluids sound like a great thing, but one Liter of fluids to a horse is like spitting in the ocean. Better than nothing, but hardly beneficial.


Situationly, I'd rather worry about the fluids first instead of the infection too, but maybe the vet thinks that it has to be that way.

Say if you can't get a tube in through the nose, would it be possible to do a Central Venous Line? I guess the vet wouldn't want to do a CVL in case the swelling spreads all the way to it.

I know this is getting extreme, but what about an enema? The intestine is what absorbs the the water and nutrients anyways, right? As sick as he is, he might not argue with that...or he might fight and it make it worse. [Confused]

[ 06-07-2006, 11:34 AM: Message edited by: Felda5032 ]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

quote:

Originally posted by cvm2002:

As long as the proper sized tube and enough finesse are used, it shouldn't be that traumatic. The question is if he's that swollen, what happens when you CAN'T get the tube in?

The "cleanliness" argument doesn't fly with me personally. The nasogastric tube in particular is hardly a sterile situation. Ever seen a horse eat dirt? Eat manure? As far as the IV goes, yeah that's a more relative argument. But that's what bandages are for. The thing to remember here is this horse CAN'T EAT OR DRINK due to the swelling that's occurred. In the grand scheme of things, is infection REALLY the most important issue? Boluses (single administrations) of fluids sound like a great thing, but one Liter of fluids to a horse is like spitting in the ocean. Better than nothing, but hardly beneficial.


Situationly, I'd rather worry about the fluids first instead of the infection too, but maybe the vet thinks that it has to be that way.

Say if you can't get a tube in through the nose, would it be possible to do a Central Venous Line? I guess the vet wouldn't want to do a CVL in case the swelling spreads all the way to it.

I know this is getting extreme, but what about an enema? The intestine is what absorbs the the water and nutrients anyways, right? As sick as he is, he might not argue with that...or he might fight and it make it worse. [Confused]

[ 06-07-2006, 11:34 AM: Message edited by: Felda5032 ]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Gosh Reno , my heart goes out to you and your horse. What a handsome fella he is.

I wonder if he stuck his nose in a nest of rattlers.........

As CVM said, the dirt issue doesn't fly with me, either. Infection can be treated with antibiotics fairly agressively---the first and foremost concern is airway and fluids. I sure hope that your vet can reconsider his stand on leaving a tube in or not. As you mentioned, you are right there with the horse and could watch over the tube and IV. He could show you how, and your care and concern tell me that you would be right on top of it.

Please know that I am thinking of you and your horse, and looking for updates, hoping for the best. [Angel][Huggy]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Gosh Reno , my heart goes out to you and your horse. What a handsome fella he is.

I wonder if he stuck his nose in a nest of rattlers.........

As CVM said, the dirt issue doesn't fly with me, either. Infection can be treated with antibiotics fairly agressively---the first and foremost concern is airway and fluids. I sure hope that your vet can reconsider his stand on leaving a tube in or not. As you mentioned, you are right there with the horse and could watch over the tube and IV. He could show you how, and your care and concern tell me that you would be right on top of it.

Please know that I am thinking of you and your horse, and looking for updates, hoping for the best. [Angel][Huggy]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Reno, I (and so many others) are praying for you and your horse. I hope he can make it through this. He seems like a very strong willed guy!

Okhorselover Started a post of prayers for your guys. Just so you know we are thinking about yall. Pray for Reno

Many Many [Angel][Huggy][Angel][Huggy] For you and your horse. Please keep us updated!

And okhorselover, [Not Worthy] On your reply to a certain person and for starting the post!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Reno, I (and so many others) are praying for you and your horse. I hope he can make it through this. He seems like a very strong willed guy!

Okhorselover Started a post of prayers for your guys. Just so you know we are thinking about yall. Pray for Reno

Many Many [Angel][Huggy][Angel][Huggy] For you and your horse. Please keep us updated!

And okhorselover, [Not Worthy] On your reply to a certain person and for starting the post!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

Sign in to follow this